In conversation with Frank Leder
Frank Leder was born in Nuremberg in Germany. He is a Libra (whatever that means). We recently sat down with Frank to pick his brain and discuss his profile as our first maker. The following is our recollection of the conversation – we may have taken some artistic licence with filling in the gaps but rest assured, Frank will have seen this before publishing…
Frank, were you always interested in fashion?
I was always interested in art and creativity, fashion came when I was a teen. There wasn't much at that time where I was from, in terms of magazines, there was one place in the train station that had international press, so there I had access to Italian GQ and Collezioni Uomo for men’s fashion from Paris and Milan. I was always interested in menswear when it came to fashion. There was one shop in Nuremberg that was progressive and stocked the likes of Margiela and maybe Dries. It was like another planet and the only place to learn about good fashion. I wasn’t always shopping there but I would hang out there.
It wasn't like I always wanted to do fashion per se. I saw fashion as a social thing. With painting or sculpture, only one person can own it but with fashion you can multiply it and always change. Everyone can own it, so instead of fine art, I studied fashion because of that thinking. Antwerp, Parsons NY and Central Saint Martins were very hot at that moment. I had a test at Central Saint Martins but I had also enrolled at university in Nuremberg to do economics (even though I was not interested in it), then the invite came from Saint Martins and I got put into the second year, missing the first year of sculpture and painting. So, maybe I could have ended up doing sculpture or performance art but because I was placed in the second year, I ended up doing fashion. I graduated in 2001 with an MA. My first project was leather curtains (which are now hanging in the atelier).
Why Berlin?
I came to berlin in 2002. I was looking to make small collections and had been exploring how they could be produced. I used my years during uni to find out where I could do all the stuff I wanted to do, especially in Dalston where I lived and I ended up in a boutique owned by a Japanese lady and her husband who had very progressive garments. I asked if I could show them some stuff because I had created my own very small collection - they liked it and it suited the shop so I could hang it there by commission and it was quite well received. Isabella Blow bought one of my items with a REAL sausage on it, well it was a so-called Hartwurst…The shop is well known in the industry and a Japanese scout saw my stuff and contacted me - I don’t know how because there were no mobile phones but he got hold of me and asked if I can do a small collection for a small chain of shops - that was the first time I couldn't do a collection myself so I had to look for production to make 20 trousers etc. Researching that was a good way to understand how to work with production and make things. The things I did for them in Tokyo, my agent sold there and I still work with the same agent to this day. As I have to do a collection every half year, I thought it’s better to speak the same language as the pattern cutters so I can talk in my mother tongue to rule out making mistakes. So I decided to go to Berlin. At that time, it was still quite rough with cheap rent and spaces to scout German factories for my garments.
What is your creative process?
I start with fabrics - I source them first then work on a collection. In the past, I had topics for collections then I tried to find the fabrics but it is very difficult to work like that. I start with the fundamentals of the garment so you make no compromises - I begin with a very strong statement which is the fabric. I give a lot of attention to buttons because I couldn't find any in factories. There was a shop in Berlin dealing vintage buttons and then I got really interested in it and sourced them myself in flea markets as well as getting together a system of people to find them for me. I need a lot for each collection - a few hundred of each kind.
How has the landscape of fashion or design changed?
I am the wrong person to ask… I don't know. I'm not interested in looking too much into the work of other people because it’s stressful for me to see something I would've done. I kind of know what's going on but I’m not so much into fashion. I like to be in my own world and do my own little thing and I never looked left or right for styles or trends. At one point, the market caught up with me about 10 years ago and was doing the same style as what I do. What I do is niche. I have always been interested in telling stories rather than selling trousers. I am a storyteller.
“Leder is either a conceptual artist whose medium is clothes, or a clothier who expresses himself in the vocabulary of conceptual art” — Michael Huey
What do you see as the future of fashion, design and retail?
I see less and less people like me working; less independent small companies. Multimillion dollar brands are ruling the fashion world. They were always there but I felt that there used to be smaller designers and more independents. I have to compete with multimillion dollar companies and I can't. However, being small I am more flexible on my ideas and how I create - I don’t need a CEO or a controller which is a big freedom but people forget that for a big company producing a shirt, it is way cheaper and easier than for me but people just see the shirt. Of course it's ok to be in this competition; it definitely doesn’t make life easier, but you have to find a way around it.
When I started out you had 70% of fashion graduates being hired by companies, but when I graduated I never wanted to be hired and people like me who wanted to start their own business were not so much. There were a couple of us but I never really followed the progress of what they do now. I have no idea what young people today are doing when graduating from fashion school.
I never wanted to do mass market or be super big. I always wanted to focus on the ideas - the garment and the idea. Obviously you have to make a living but through these developments, I never had problems funding collections which is great. I never had problems not knowing where to sell because I always had enough people interested in my offerings but I understand that’s rare and I have to be thankful for these opportunities to continue because every season you need enough people to buy your stuff being offered in the shops. There’s this super big social media phenomenon but I am so bad at selling myself yet I’m still on the market. I must count but we’re approaching 50 collections which is a lot of garments out there; a lot of clothes sold, so thank you very much to everyone out there willing or unwillingly contributing to allow me to continue doing that. I have always been very passionate about what I did and I was never ever thinking about how much money I can make - it was never the point. It was always about the idea. Today, people rarely fall in love with a garment now or the concept of an artist - instead shops look to outside worlds and it’s just about the name or a hype brand.
How do you feel about fast fashion?
The problem is the greenwashing because it’s only possible by exploitation and exploitation should be avoided at any cost, so when you participate in buying these garments, you participate in supporting a very unhealthy way of working with people. It’s the opposite of what I do because for me it's the people. The people l work with, the people that make garments with me - I want to know the person on the sewing machine, I want to know who is sewing my garments together. Talking to them and knowing that when this person sews my name into the garments that they do it with more motivation or knowledge of the brand, ‘oh that’s the guy I spoke to’. It's respect to all people I work with - I want respect for my work and I give respect.
Who is your customer?
There’s a new generation of people who discovered me and those who have followed me from day 1; people who are 18 and those who are 60. Lots of artists and creative people but not only, there are also people who are fed up with big brands and the BS they talk and appreciate some personal note towards getting a shirt or trousers.
Is there a Frank Leder signature?
Not that I am aware of, maybe it’s more about fabrics. I always use wool in winter and linen and interesting cottons in summer.
What’s your favourite collar?
The standing collar (grandad collar), because I like the old style way.
How did you source the bedsheet fabric?
I came across them by chance a long time ago when trying to source different items. They were sealed and never used from the 50-70s, it depends on the label, but they’re from the cold war when stockpiling in bunkers. The bedsheets are military grade fabrics and sourced to the highest standard. [On a side note, you can wear these bedsheets because the Advocate shirt - which is the Nubes x Frank Leder shirt collaboration - is crafted from these exact bedsheets from the 60s.]
What do clouds mean to you?
A lot of course. I have my black cloud next to my desk everyday. Nowadays clouds are the first thing which shift and transform for me. I don't know the meaning of it but my relationship to clouds is certainly an interesting one. I'm a person into fantasy - cloud shifting and making new forms. Always interested in the sky, lying there and looking at clouds.
Do you have any rituals?
I like rituals because per se I'm a person who needs order and order in the head - not too much chaos.
Tell us a secret you’ve never told anyone.
To be confirmed…
What is your favourite colour?
Blue - I have blue eyes and a lot of blue garments.
Do you believe in God?
I was an altar boy which made me stop believing. My dad was very catholic. I believe in a higher or certain aura/order but I’m pretty realistic about the story of Jesus Christ that the church tried to tell us.
Is this the best collaboration you’ve ever done?
(At this point the interview ended but we could tell by Frank’s expression that he meant yes.) No in truth, he said: of course.